I just want to get this thread back on the right track again. If you want to debate about whether it is or isn't ethical for the WTS to invest in certain stocks, start another thread. This thread is for following the $$ trail as you can see by the title. Let's take it from there.
watch the tower
JoinedPosts by watch the tower
-
126
Let's play a game - Follow the WTS $$ trail
by watch the tower ina huge question that i have in the back of my mind regarding the wts is where all of the money ends up.
no one really has a conclusive answer to that.
i think it would reveal a lot if we were able to find out.. i know there have been various threads in the past where it revealed a clue here and a clue there.
-
-
-
126
Let's play a game - Follow the WTS $$ trail
by watch the tower ina huge question that i have in the back of my mind regarding the wts is where all of the money ends up.
no one really has a conclusive answer to that.
i think it would reveal a lot if we were able to find out.. i know there have been various threads in the past where it revealed a clue here and a clue there.
-
-
watch the tower
Whoa! Now THAT'S what I'm talkin' bout!
That's a nice way to get the ball rolling.
Thanks gerard!
Now the question is, does the money just sit there or are the profits that are gained here invested somewhere else? What individuals have the authority to control these funds? How have they been used in the past besides general upkeep and buying/renovating real estate? How deep does the rabbit hole go?
In a typical non-profit org, the money goes back to the cause that the org is established for. Obviously it isn't happening within the WT org. What is it really going? Where does the funnel lead to? Let's keep on digging. I'll post whatever I can find as well.
-
126
Let's play a game - Follow the WTS $$ trail
by watch the tower ina huge question that i have in the back of my mind regarding the wts is where all of the money ends up.
no one really has a conclusive answer to that.
i think it would reveal a lot if we were able to find out.. i know there have been various threads in the past where it revealed a clue here and a clue there.
-
-
watch the tower
lego,
Take a look at the link I posted that leads to a huge thread on that topic. BTW, I noticed that the gifs of the trust documents no longer appear. Oh well...it was there before.
-
126
Let's play a game - Follow the WTS $$ trail
by watch the tower ina huge question that i have in the back of my mind regarding the wts is where all of the money ends up.
no one really has a conclusive answer to that.
i think it would reveal a lot if we were able to find out.. i know there have been various threads in the past where it revealed a clue here and a clue there.
-
-
watch the tower
A huge question that I have in the back of my mind regarding the WTS is where all of the money ends up. No one really has a conclusive answer to that. I think it would reveal a lot if we were able to find out.
I know there have been various threads in the past where it revealed a clue here and a clue there. There seems to be quite a bit of info on this topic on this board but presented in a fragmented form.
Would it be possible to eventually come to a plausible conclusion by combining any info that we may collectively have and consolidating into 1 ongoing thread? Are there ppl reading this board that have connections to ppl who work in the accounting or legal dept? Has anyone done extensive research on this topic? Is anyone interested in digging into this? Maybe if we all pitch in what we know, we can figure this out...
So far, we've found out that the WTS owns a considerable amount of stock in Rand Cam corp., a military contractor. They also own stock in Phillip Morris.
http://www.randytv.com/randcam.htm
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/11/54708/1.ashx
Let's face it, this is not the end of the trail. Has anyone dug deeper? Has anyone discovered other trails?
I think it would be great to keep this going and see what we can come up with.
-
15
WT decision makers = hopelessly out of touch
by watch the tower ini worked at the hq for a few years in the 90's and i've personally known and met several influential bethelites during my time there.
these are brothers that have been there 20-30-40+ years and hold various degrees of authority within the org.
looking back and thinking about these ppl, i can't help but comment how out of touch these people were.
-
-
watch the tower
I worked at the HQ for a few years in the 90's and I've personally known and met several influential bethelites during my time there. These are brothers that have been there 20-30-40+ years and hold various degrees of authority within the org. Looking back and thinking about these ppl, I can't help but comment how out of touch these people were. Of course, I didn't realize it at the time because I was out of touch myself.
I remember Russ Kurzin (single old bro. has been there for 60+ yrs at the time) telling me that the holocaust happened because Satan wanted to get rid of JW. According to him, JWs were the main reason for that. I also remember a talk given by Br. Abrahamson where he elaborated on why Jehovah's modern day org. HAD to be in the U.S. and HAD to be in Brooklyn. He went on about the fact that only an org. HQed in an an economic dominant country could financially support the worldwide work and that it had to be located in a port city for shipping purposes, blah blah blah. Of course I believed it and was fascinated at the time.
I've been living a "normal" life for some time now, thinking back, I can clearly see how detached from reality these ppl were by living that kind of institutionalized life for such a long time. You really live in your little bethel universe. They really have no idea what life is like on the "outside". Spending time with the cong. on the weekends doesn't give you a clue. Especially when most of that time is spent at the KH or in service anyways.
To think that these clueless individuals are the people that are dictating how 6 million people on the "outside" should live their lives based on misapplication of scripture is really frightening. The recent anti-education propaganda being promoted (among other things) is a direct reflection on how out of touch with the real world these ppl really are. It kind of explains how they come up with all these self centered prophecies in the Revelation book too.
I hope this self-centered, compartmentalized ideology will eventually lead to their downfall. Maybe it already has??!!
Can you feel the gap getting wider between their reality and ours?
-
21
JW response to latest hard line anti-education WT article?
by watch the tower inbased on some of the recent threads, it seems that the latest wt study article has created quite a stir within the congs.
for those of you that are still attending meetings and in active association with the cong, i am curious as to what the private response of individuals has been like.
i'm not talking about the usual, "wasn't that a great study?
-
-
watch the tower
I grew up in the 80's when there was a hard line stance against education. Because of that, I didn't go to college then, although I got my degree much later. Then in the early 90's, out came a WT study article that loosened up on the stance. This is when a flood of school-aged JWs all went to college because it was ok now. Now they are back to their old stance.
Here's the dilemma for the WT. The parents of school aged kids today have experienced the flip flop personally. They are the ones that have felt slighted and robbed of an opportunity to get an education when the pro-college article came out in the early 90's. I was one of those that felt that way altho I didn't vocalize it. I'm sure I wasn't the only one. They will not buy into this, neither will they deny their children something they could have had.
The young JWs that were able to go to college after the flip flop are now perhaps parents of young children themselves now. They're not going to buy it because they were able to go to college as JWs and remain respected in the cong. Even if they didn't, they have seen peers who have and have had no repurcussions. They will have no problem sending their children to college when the time comes.
I don't think this WT article will have any effect on how most JW young ppl will map out their futures. It appears a desperate attempt by the GB to get the youth back in line with the org. since there are so many that have been leaving in recent years. Also, it is apparent to them that even among those that stick around don't make much 'spiritual progress' or have 'spiritual goals'. Perhaps they are thinking that the cause of this 'problem' is the soft stance on education they have taken within the past decade or so and are trying to get things back to where it once was. Sorry boys! It's not gonna work, the cat is already out of the bag! You've shot yourselves in the foot with this one!
-
21
JW response to latest hard line anti-education WT article?
by watch the tower inbased on some of the recent threads, it seems that the latest wt study article has created quite a stir within the congs.
for those of you that are still attending meetings and in active association with the cong, i am curious as to what the private response of individuals has been like.
i'm not talking about the usual, "wasn't that a great study?
-
-
watch the tower
Yes. Doublespeak seems to be used all the time in this org and it works all the time with those trapped inside.
Say two opposing things and have it both ways.
"Don't believe a word I say because everything I say is true."
-
21
JW response to latest hard line anti-education WT article?
by watch the tower inbased on some of the recent threads, it seems that the latest wt study article has created quite a stir within the congs.
for those of you that are still attending meetings and in active association with the cong, i am curious as to what the private response of individuals has been like.
i'm not talking about the usual, "wasn't that a great study?
-
-
watch the tower
Based on some of the recent threads, it seems that the latest WT study article has created quite a stir within the congs. For those of you that are still attending meetings and in active association with the cong, I am curious as to what the private response of individuals has been like. I'm not talking about the usual, "wasn't that a great study?" token response that you usually hear. I'm talking about how the individuals really feel about the most recent flip-flop. Has anyone made any interesting observations as to the general response of the article?
I find it hard to believe that ppl can take this seriously anymore. I would think that a lot of ppl would feel discontent and frustration on a private level with this kind of thing.
-
12
Russell is to Freemasons as "Apostates" are to JWD
by watch the tower inyour latest russell freemasonry fix here.
this makes perfect sense to me.
stop trying to look for hard evidence just short of russell being raised from the grave, grabbing a bullhorn and shouting "i was a mason!".
-
-
watch the tower
New hobby?
I'm not on this board nearly as much as you are littletoe. Thank for the concern. You're such a caring individual.
-
12
Russell is to Freemasons as "Apostates" are to JWD
by watch the tower inyour latest russell freemasonry fix here.
this makes perfect sense to me.
stop trying to look for hard evidence just short of russell being raised from the grave, grabbing a bullhorn and shouting "i was a mason!".
-
-
watch the tower
Your latest Russell Freemasonry fix here. This makes perfect sense to me. What do you think? Stop trying to look for hard evidence just short of Russell being raised from the grave, grabbing a bullhorn and shouting "I WAS A MASON!". After reading this. What does your intuition tell you? No smartass comments please.
If, when reading a particular writer’s works, you came across repeated references to medical terms you could safely assume that the writer had in the past had some close relationship with doctoring or medicine. Likewise, when one reads the books and sermons of Pastor Charles Taze Russell, one can see regular use of Masonic terms such as ‘mystery’ and ‘secret’ and Masonic buzz words such as Grand Master, Great Architect of the Universe, the Order, Light, Priesthood and Initiated and use of Masonic symbols then one must assume that Russell had more than a fleeting knowledge of the Masonic order. In a book of Pastor Russell’s Sermons we find some interesting wording in the style of writing especially in the first sermon in the book. We quote below some of the sections of this sermon for your consideration, the Masonic terms are underlined and the Masonic teaching is shown below each section of text :-
Page 6 :- As in some secret societies there are different steps or grades—for instance, all Masons are familiar with the secrets pertaining to the first degree yet not all Masons are familiar with the secrets, etc., pertaining to the thirty-second degree, so in God's Secret Order there are first principles of the doctrines of-Christ which must be known to all who belong to the order, and are also “deep things of God,” which may be known only to those who have made advancement by growth in grace and knowledge and love. (Heb. 6:1; I Cor. 2:10) To some unfamiliar with the facts but having a knowledge of earthly secret societies it may seem strange to say that the secrets of the Divine Order of the Sons of God are so abstract, so impenetrable, that they may be discussed freely in the presence of others and not be comprehended at all.
Compare the Masonic teaching – There are Degrees and Orders in God’s fraternal order
Page 6 :- The only restrictions in respect to the telling of the secrets of this Order of the Melchizedek Priesthood are, “Cast not that which is holy before dogs,” “Cast not your pearls before swine,”
Compare the Masonic teaching – Keep Holy knowledge secret
Page 7 :- a preparatory or Junior Order was inaugurated, Abraham being chosen of the Lord as its Grand Master. To him the whole secret of the Order was communicated in few words saying, “In thee and in thy Seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.”
Compare the Masonic teaching – Abraham was a Grand Master
Page 12 : It is at times really amazing to note how the unconsecrated mind, attempting to understand the Mystery of God, designed only for the members of this Order, falls into such egregious blunders
Compare the Masonic teaching – Mysteries are designed for only God’s Fraternal Order
Page 13 : that all from whom God thus hides these special things or secrets of the Lord
Compare the Masonic teaching – God hides secret knowledge
Page 14 : We are not hindered from telling the ultimate purposes of this grand Secret Order which our Lord organized
Compare the Masonic teaching – The Grand Secret Order has purpose
Page 14 :- you as have taken several degrees in the Order, passing from grace to grace and from knowledge to knowledge.
Compare the Masonic teaching – There Are degrees of knowledge
Page 14 – 15 : To our understanding the total number of members in this Order of the Melchizedek Priesthood will be 144,001, the one being our Grand Master and Lord and Redeemer, the others being those of whom He says,
Compare the Masonic teaching – Membership limited to 144,001
Page 17 :- I exhort that we who have become members of this Secret Order of the Lord, including also those who under the leading of the Lord’s Spirit, may yet become members of it, shall appreciate more and more fully its wonderful privileges and gladly conform more and more to its requirements, that we may thus make our calling and election sure to the glorious fruition of our hopes in the Kingdom of God and its gracious work under the whole heavens!
Compare the Masonic teaching – Work hard at the secret orders to make sure of your salvation
This is just a small sampling of the extensive Masonic wording from this sermon alone and should you wish to have a copy of the full sermon with Masonic terms underlined please send a small donation to cover costs and postage.
Another area which reflects the Masonic connection was the use of symbols. The sign used by the Masonic order of Knights Templar was the cross dissecting a crown. The members were encouraged to display their logo where ever possible. In case the reader is thinking that a similar logo may have been created, which we would admit could be a possibility, we should point out that the Masonic Knights Templar symbol had a red cross and a very distinctive crown. When Russell used the logo on early copies of the Watchtower they clearly had a red cross and the special distinctive crown. Also on flyers and advertising materials a red cross and the special crown was always used.
The Knights Templar Crown was also used on the headstone on the grave of Pastor Russell and a good colour photograph of this can be seen on this web site. It is also interesting to note that many of Russell's talks were given at Masonic halls for example The Watchtower of 1 December 1923 on page 360 records the use of the Pittsburgh Syria Shrine Temple for the annual meeting of the WTB&TS/Convention.
One way Masons recognise each other is by secret signals and handshakes or terms in printed material. It seems odd that in the New World Translation of the Bible at Hosea 12:14 the Hebrew word “adonai” is translated as “grand master” in this one instance only. Could this be a secret sign to other Masons and maybe a clue to translation committee member Frederick Franz’s connection with the Masons.
In his book The Watchtower & the Masons Fritz Springmeier says
It has always been disconcerting that the Masons are so adept at smokescreens. The leader of the Anti-Masonic political party in the 1830-1840’s turned out to be a Mason. Both C.T.Russell and J.Rutherford printed material that was less than favourable to Freemasonry. And yet I now know that C.T.Russell was a Freemason, a Knights Templar. I also know that Rutherford worked intimately with Freemasons who were his good friends
The Golden Age magazine, published by the Watchtower Society, of 26 March 1924 gives us a clue to where the name Watchtower may really have come from. The Society tells us that Mizpah in Hebrew translates into Watchtower. Interestingly one of the important types of magick used by the Illuminati, secret societies and New Agers is Enochian magick. The Watchtowers are a vital part of Enochian magick. Interestingly, three Knights Templar lodges that have the Hebrew name Mizpah were operating in Charles T. Russell’s area.
The Watchtower Society under Russell’s direction actually proclaimed in The Watchtower of 15 Feb 1915 that God would use occult power on the earth during the Millennium. Under the heading “Evil Occult Powers In Operation” the magazine states on page 59
The difference between Samuel and his occult powers, and the occult powers of others today is this : Samuel’s were manifested under Divine direction at a time when God was pleased to use such powers amongst his people Israel – powers which doubtless will be in exercise also to some extent during the Millennial Age for the world’s guidance.
Russell was very much interested in Egypt and pyramids. This was evident from his extensive writings about the pyramids and their perceived connection to the Holy Scriptures. (See Studies in the Scriptures Vol 3). The first editions of his books Studies in the Scriptures bore on the front cover the Egyptian Winged Sun Disk. There are many variants of this symbol but the one used by Russell was the one used by the Masons.
The Winged Sun Disk derives its meaning from ancient Egypt and represents the actual Masonic god worshipped at the higher levels of the Masonic Order. On Russell’s tomb stands a pyramid bearing the Knights Templar logo and as stated earlier this can be seen on this web site where you can view a colour photograph of this.
Finally let us look at some parallels between what Pastor Russell believed and what the Masons teach:-
- Both believe Jehovah is the most important word being the basis of their dogma, and the name of their God
- Both believe God yielded power to a lesser God
- Neither take heed that the Tetragrammaton is more properly rendered Yahweh rather than Jehovah, nor do they give much credence to the Tetragrammaton meaning “I am that I am”.
- Both use the Masonic term Great Architect
- Both believe that Jesus is only a good man, not almighty God
- Both believe that Hiram Abiff is the Messiah
- Both do not understand Christ’s mediatorship and do not feel the need for Christ to be their mediator.
- Both believe the church is a secret mysterious body – whose mysteries and secrets are only given to the initiated as they progress.
- Both state that members of their organisation do not need to renounce their membership in other religious bodies.
- Both believe the church is a pyramid
- Both have another Bible
- Both feel that Christian scholars do not know the first thing about the Bible
- Both believe that the Bible is written in code and is a hidden book and a temple.
- Both believe in a future life for all mankind, the new Golden Age.
- Both reject the doctrine of Hell
- Both speak with the same voice – to writ, that a lie is not a lie when one deceives someone not worthy to know the truth.
- Both will lie under oath to protect friends.
- Both emphasise continuing revelation.
- Both see an exclusiveness to truth
- Both appeal to reason, to mysteries, and hidden knowledge.
- Both while appealing to reason, feel no compunction in regards to historical facts, no matter how certain the historical evidence might be against their chosen view.
- Both are fascinated with numbers, and special & cryptic meanings for numbers.
- Both believe that God uses orders (ranks), and degrees, and oaths.
- Both believe that Abraham and Melchizedek had progressed to a high degree in God’s order.
- Both believe that God built the Great Pyramid.
- Both are interested in Egyptology.
- Both do not understand the atonement of Christ as Christian Theologians understand it.
- Both believe in salvation by works.
- Neither believe the new birth is needed.
- Both use Masonic buzz words and symbols.
- Both regard the Catholic church as Babylon the Great.
- Both felt blacks were inferior to whites.
- Both met in Masonic Halls.
Remember these comparisons are with the thoughts of Pastor Russell and may not all be applicable to the modern teachings of the Watchtower Society
A good book to read on this subject is The Watchtower & The Masons by Fritz Springmeier from which the above list was taken. Unfortunately the book is out of print but may be available from second hand bookshops. We are indebted to the author for the information contained in this very condensed article from his 248 page book. In closing we would like to quote from the last chapter of the book.:-
- First it is clear that Russell knew detailed information about the Masons.
- Second, Russell’s background was conducive to Masonic membership, and placed him in an excellent position to learn about the Masons.
- Third, in spite of his own warnings that Freemasonry promotes “profane worship”, and in spite of his detailed knowledge of Masonry, Russell picks for his organisation Masonic logos, symbols and names.
- Fourth, an overview of his writings and speeches show an almost continual repetition of Masonic teachings, Masonic buzzwords, and tolerance toward Freemasonry.
- Fifth, Russell elevates his teachings above everyone else including the Freemasons. It was no accident when he printed two ex-Mason Bible Students’ letters which praised his anti Masonic stand. It was his way of building up his reputation. He is the only one with true brotherhood, and only his followers have true love. No organisation is exempt from his criticism. His self elevation and demeaning of most everyone else, should not be mistaken or confused as being a rejection of Masonic ideas and principles. Still he sees the Masonic order as a pattern of the “fellowship of mystery”, God’s secret order, better known as the church.
- Sixth, Russell's beliefs dovetail with those of the Masons.
- Seventh, Russell’s thirst to examine all the heresies in his personal studies, especially the likes of the Knights Templar, make it difficult to imagine that Russell did not study the Knights Templar.
We hope you find this article stimulating and suggest that anyone interested should make a further private study of the subject.
Source: